Page 2 of 3
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:15 pm
I've checked out the gang's first meeting at Moonbase and Shiro is indeed a Ginga, so that's the Zenan thing blown out of the water.I can't remember off hand but which episode features the most vivid flashback of Lamia and Prof. Ginga?
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 9:02 pm
Well, I just watched the part of the episode where they rejoin Prof Hagen and there's an awful lot of father and son talk there! And yet still the reference to "bringing Lamia up". Plus, Prof had definitely done X Project - he says he "had time on his hands" which is why he went looking for Lamia's home planet. Now, I suppose it's possible he'd just done the designs - and it ended up being Dr Benn who built it. That being the case, Dave's time frame might make a little more sense, but the comments in episode 1 still don't gel - it's only in this episode where they meet up with Prof Hagen (about episode 20, I think, Shane) that Shiro says they'd given him up for dead. Something, somewhere, isn't quite right...
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:13 pm
Heh. BTW, well done Shane - you've now gained the rank of your avatar!
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:51 pm
Here's the file that may hold some answers:http://www.bigdaix.com/profginga.mpgShiro
and the Prof's reaction's look to be quite telling....Oh and thankyou Doctor. At last a full General I am. Shane.(Edited by Shane at 7:56 pm on July 9, 2002)
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:51 pm
Yes, it all seemed pretty similar to the English version, didn't it? But the music and some of the voices - lift the lid and smell the cheese! So we're left with Shiro being the Professor's son, but Lamia having also been raised by the Professor at some point - from infancy, no less. But you notice in the English version, Lamia never calls Professor Hagen "father" at any point. So the best version of events I can come up with is that Shiro was born before Lamia and was perhaps sent to Earth and a boarding school (!) before moving on to the academy. So when Shiro's still quite young, Lamia arrives on Mars and is found there by Prof Hagen who's still working on X Project there. He then raises her with help from others (probably Dr Benn) but keeps her presence concealed from Shiro who he sees on Earth every now and again. So finally, when Prof Hagen leaves to search for Lamia's homeworld, Shiro has just come out of training and Lamia has moved to Moonbase to help Dr Benn. It's the partitioning of Shiro and Lamia which I still don't quite buy although it sort of makes sense...
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:11 am
If there are any dragonball fans out there you will know what this is all about. I suggest that Prof Hagen is actually the same as Picaloe is to Gohan.Gohan calls Picaloe "Jow Bay Hadt Sutd Sow" (excuses the spelling of Jap/Cantoneese words in english) There is no English meaning for this phrase, the closest you can get is a cross between god Parent and Uncle. This is one example of how translations can be lost, I am sure there are more phrases without english meanings. this would make writers do a "best guess" or re-write of parts of the plot. This is in my opinion what happened.
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:13 am
That's interesting Matt - as I mentioned towards the beginning of this thread, mis-translation or a "best guess" is certainly a possibility and I think the discrepancies in the English version suggest some difficulty on this front. I'll definitely have to drop my friend Eleanor a line and see if she can have a listen to Shane's clip.I could certainly go with the Uncle argument, because although their surnames are the same that doesn't of course mean that it's a father and son family tie - or even a family tie at all. So that would allow for Shiro knowing Prof Hagen, but saying quite rightly that he's not seen him for a while. That also allows for Shiro not knowing Lamia as Uncle lives on Mars, and obviously makes the Lamia connection very straightforward.So, those of you in the know, how many honorific roles are there in a Japanese family tree? The family is very strong over there, isn't it?
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:18 am
One other thing - when you consider when this dubbing work was done, very early 80s, Manga Entertainment wasn't even a twinkle in someone's eye. So I suppose the industry's experience with translating Japanese shows must have been relatively limited at that point? Fair comment? That could explain the early confusion. Thinking about it, it'd be a lot of work for someone - you're talking about 8 hours rather than the normal 90 minutes of a single anime film. I don't remember seeing that credit anywhere, though, anyone?
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:42 pm
I'd like to know why the Prof. pretended to be dead in the first place? What was the point of raising Lamia in secret anyway? She ended up effectively out in the open with Dr. Benn when the Prof. decided to bugger off and start making Giant Weapons for Pacifist Kingdoms. What kind of guy fakes his own death when he has dual parenting responsibilities towards both Lamia and lets not forget poor Shiro.I'm starting to like your theory Andy regarding the Prof. being an Uncle rather than a father. If the Prof. was truely Shiro's father then there is no reason why Lamia could not have been raised on Earth with Shiro. If however Shiro is actually a true orpthan. (We never hear of his mother do we?) Maybe Shiro was brought up from birth in the Academy, with the Prof. popping by from time to time. This would explain why Captain Carter was portrayed much more as a father figure to Shiro in the series. The only flaw to this argument is that if both Shiro's parents are dead Then why isn't his uncle looking after him? Again the only argument I can offer is that maybe Earth academy start em young, and that the Prof. believed he would be better looked after in the Academy. It could also just be bad writing on the part of the Japanese creators, or something that was lost in translation.Thinking about it, the mystery might be solved if someone could translate the shuttle scene from the 1st episode of Bomber X. I think we can be quite certain that Bomber X is a 100% translation of the Japanese original. You're a bit of a wiz with the French language aren't you Andy?Shane.