What would you change?

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Crash
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What would you change?

Postby Crash » Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:05 pm

Is gravity not calculated by simply dividing density by size?so for Jupiter:density = not very much___________________size = rather a lot=> not very much gravity at all, so yeah probably.(Edited by Crash Override at 6:07 pm on Oct. 16, 2002)
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AndyThomas
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What would you change?

Postby AndyThomas » Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:52 pm

(Gets his textbook out). Mm. Apparently Jupiter's mean density is much lower than Earth's due to it consisting mainly of hyrdogen. However, its core is much denser and hotter than ours. Despite its relatively low density its mass is still 318 times that of the Earth, and so its gravitational pull is that much greater which puts the pressure on its core. Apparently it's also hotter than it should be were it reliant solely on the Sun to heat it, and this is due to it putting out gravitational energy from the compression due to its gravity. Another consequence is the strong EM fields and radiation belts. Of course, anything in the atmosphere would meet a lot of resistance due to the atmospherics so I doubt anything unpowered could keep enough speed up to prevent being pulled into the core. 14 satellites though, at the time my book was written...
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felice
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What would you change?

Postby felice » Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:45 pm

Hmmmm... it looks like the depiction of Jupiter in Starfleet is more accurate than I thought. Apparently most of Jupiter's volume is made up of a sea of liquid hydrogen nearly 60 thousand km deep, which is what Makara would have been hiding in. And the asteroid base would be floating on the surface of this (with powered antigrav keeping it there if necessary), a very long way out from the super-dense solid core. Gravity on the surface is only 2.5G. So the atmospheric pressure would be the biggest problem, and I have no trouble believing that the Starfleet universe technology is up to that task.

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What would you change?

Postby AndyThomas » Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:10 am

Only one slight snag with that - in Star Fleet they describe it as the "methane sea" and Makara's ship lands on some rocky ocean bed.  Doesn't exist on Jupiter.  The reality is that there's no nice calm sea on Jupiter.  No officer in their right mind would set out to create a base in such horrific environmental conditions.  The atmosphere is constantly whipping around as well - the red spot is a massive storm system, for example, that's lasted for years.In order for hydrogen to act like a liquid the pressure has to be intense.  Trust me when I say that the Star Fleet tech would categorically not be able to cope with that.  No currently envisaged tech could.  Probes we send in are lucky if they last a couple of minutes before being crushed.  I don't know if you watch Babylon 5, but there's a scene where a ship enters Jupiter and gets crushed not long after - and it's supposedly the most advanced tech going.  That episode also highlights another issue - high energy weapons and hydrogen do not mix!At the end of the day the reality of conditions on Jupiter simply does not match up with what you see in the series.  It's not even slightly orange!  It's a non-starter.  One of Jupiter's moons, fine, but Jupiter itself is a no-no.  Incidentally, you say 2.5G isn't much.  But that's 2 and a half times Earth normal.  Again, tactically, no commanding officer of a ship designed primarily for zero-g combat would choose a hi-G environment for a battle zone.  You'd chew up too much energy just keeping moving...Edit: ah, actually there is some methane present on Jupiter. However, if you read this you'll see that it ain't a nice place and doesn't really have a "surface" as such - 600km/h wind speeds and the like. The furthest any probe has reached is just 150m below the nominal "surface".http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/sola ... ndex.shtml
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CondorJoe
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What would you change?

Postby CondorJoe » Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:16 pm

time to suit up then. it's morphin time. LOL a brown sun? and it's invisible? howed they find it, with an invisible space telescope? ROFLMAO

AndyThomas
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What would you change?

Postby AndyThomas » Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:58 pm

There are many wavelengths in the EM spectrum - just because something's not giving off visible light doesn't mean it's undetectable. Gamma rays, X Rays, etc are all indicators of energetic bodies. As you say Mike, Jupiter is very nearly massive enough for fusion to occur in its core and of course in 2010 Jupiter is pushed to ignition point by the monoliths, turning it into a second sun. Presumably if its mass remained constant such a transformation wouldn't have a knock-on effect on the rest of the solar system - not sure, that's about as far as my knowledge of physics will take me. Oh, and Dave - Zoids aren't the same as Zords. There's actually a new anime based on the Zoids toy range which is being resurrected again. They were originally wind-up meccano style plastic kits that resembled various sorts of dinosaurs.
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CondorJoe
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What would you change?

Postby CondorJoe » Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:38 pm

i know the dif andy i was just being my usual poke fun at posts self. oh and i have every zoid known to man in my attick even the z knight kits. even king bracazoid that was never issued to the uk.(Edited by CondorJoe at 8:41 pm on Oct. 18, 2002)

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Crash
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What would you change?

Postby Crash » Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:27 pm

Hmm. yeah Lucifer. The books were marginally better than the films (still awful tho').Zords and especially the Dai-X never cease to amaze me how they can look probable, smart and competent as their own self-contained units and change and join up together. Oh yes and as respects the "hah" actual topic of this string; Absolutely sweet FA, that's what I would change.
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